I think that Obama should have included more Language Arts into his speech because such a huge part of the speech was based on education. Obama wrote a great speech, but like what the article said, he could have emphasised a certain subject a little more. The best part is that as my dad and I were watching this, we noticed three or four grammatical mistakes that Obama made. Not to be hypercitical or anything, I bet that I made a few mistakes in this post, but still, i'm not the President. Kevin Scott Period 5
I'm not necessarily sure why Obama would need to include Language Arts in his speech. Nations are competing with advances in engineering, medicine, and other branches of scientific advances. They are not really comparing which nation has the best writers, or the best-selling novels.
Now, don't get me wrong; I completely understand the importance of Language Arts in my life, and that of everyone else. I just think that great minds in math and science would benefit the country more than those in Language Arts. Obama is pointing this out, and including all subjects would just take away from the speech.
It's understandable why Obama wouldn't include Language Arts in his speech. I mean, Math and Science are the two subjects that all countries try to be the best in, and the world's future relies on these subjects. Math and science are everywhere, from New York City's skyscrapers to China's labs.
Now, I did notice in the article one topic I think Obama should have spoken about. Foreign Languages. Everyone knows that America is involved in just about every country in the world, and we all know the world has many different languages. Due to this, Americans should be much more proficient in foreign languages. This is one subject I believe Obama should have expanded on.
I understand why math and science were put ahead of language arts skills in Obama's speech. Writing and reading skills are necessary in any job, but so are science and math. In some jobs, math is the dominant skill used. Science and math are also languages that the whole world knows. On the other hand, even to write Obama's speech, manny people would have to be very skilled in writing.
To Fransisco R.: According to you, "I just think that great minds in math and science would benefit the country more than those in Language Arts. Obama is pointing this out, and including all subjects would just take away from the speech." What do you think the speech would be like if Language Art skills weren't as important and were not focused on at school? Do you think that the speech would still have the same impact if it was not written as well?
I don't know if I should feel offended that my name was misspelled by Uval. Yes, that was intentional.
I think that my comment was misinterpreted. I was sharing my point of view as in to why I understand Obama's choice in not including Language Arts in his speech. I am in no way whatsoever saying Language Arts is not important, because in my opinion, it is.
I think that Obama should have included Language Arts and Reading into his speech because it is a part of our everyday lives. Writing an essay is what gets us into college and if we don't read books to improve our vocabulary why would the colleges want us? Do you think that the people that use like and um and first-grade level words in their sentences will get chosen through an interview? So obviously, it was a big mistake for Obama to exclude Language Arts and Reading in his speech.
Also, some people above mentioned that Science and Math is what the nation's are best at, but that means that they should most definitely be focusing on Reading and Language Arts. Shouldn't they want their nation to be well-rounded in education. I mean in parts of the world people can't even read, oh wait that doesn't matter because their country is amazing at Science. That makes no sense.
@Marina If a person is amazing at math and science, it's because he/she received a proper education whether from that person's parents or from a school. If that person received a proper education, I'm willing to bet he/she can read. Thus, (using the Law of Syllogism :D) if a person is amazing at math and science, then I'm willing to bet he/she can read. Also, nations in which the literacy rates are extremely low aren't worrying about math and science or even reading; they're focusing more on trying to keep most of their populations from dying of malnutrition or disease.
Now, I agree with Sisco (For anyone who’s wondering, that would be Francisco R.), a country benefits more from, say, a new machine that can quickly and accurately perform open-heart surgeries than from a new Shakespeare. They each bring progress into their own fields, but the heart-surgery machine more so than the Shakespeare’s reincarnation dude.
I think everyone knows that a nerd will one day end up being his/her boss due to the whole Bill Gates/Mark Zuckerberg era, right? They are both extremely gifted people in their fields of (what would that be?) computer science intertwined with advanced mathematics? (I probably did not get that right.) Let’s just say coding. However, some of the highest positions in our country aren’t exactly filled by mathematical geniuses or rocket scientists. Take the role of President for example. Mr. Obama doesn’t have to know how to code 3-D surfaces into .obj files. However, he has to be an extremely eloquent person so that he can deliver captivating, motivational speeches, an enormous part of his job. Therefore, he depends more on his reading and writing skills for his job than on mathematical theorems and Newton’s Three Laws; that would be a case in which Language Arts is more important than Science and Math.
On a side note, one very important subject, has been excluded both from Obama’s speech and from this conversation. It’s a subject that helps us understand each other as different nations and as different cultures. It helps us understand where other countries are coming from and where we are coming from. Can anyone guess what that is?
Caterina Golner Period 2
PS- I love how Sisco thinks he's famous enough to not have to put which period he's in. :)
I believe that the main argument that is used to say that Obama should have included Language Arts in his speech is that it is important. On a personal level, this is completely accurate. However, that alone is not necessarily reason enough for Obama to include it in his speech.
My logic is that as a nation, we need more math and science people as opposed to Language Arts people. We already have enough eloquent politicians, and would benefit from more engineers.
@Sisco :P Language Arts is important because it directly affects how well a person will be able to communicate (whether it be verbally, writtenly, textedly, etc.) with others later on in his/her life. There are plenty of mathematically and scientifically inclined people who don't know how to express themselves. They end up depressed and lonely, ostracized by society. (Okay, that was slightly dramatic.)
I think that Cat got sidetracked in her post. We are discussing whether Obama should have included Language Arts in his speech, not if it is important or not.
Also, by not including it in his speech, he is not sending out a message to everyone to stop studying Language Arts. He is merely putting emphasis on math and science, something I agree with.
Disclaimer: I already have a bit of a penchant for the Language Arts/Social Studies side of the curriculum, so this may come out biased.
Honestly, putting all this emphasis on the more analytical subjects is fantastic, but certain students may be more inclined to thrive under the "right-brained" subjects, and President Obama snubbed those students. To maintain a balance, both art and culture need to flourish side-by-side with scientific and mathematical advancements. Or at least I hope so. Because if not, I'm out of prospective careers. :D
No subject eclipses the other. As Kevin pointed out, President Obama's grammatical slips were more than just a little ironic. With the new "wired-in" generation gradually replacing Shakespeare with "Twitriture," L.A. seems more important than ever. He should not have neglected to mention.
I have to agree with Cat. I mean, not only has math and science seem to be the core of the curriculum, but some countries such as France and Britain were considering making the classes of History, Geography, and Reading OPTIONAL (according to a recent Economist article.)Hopefully, this isn't starting the trend- the consequences would certainly be dire.
And Francisco, there are plenty of careers- several which have a tremendous impact on society- which are centered on Language Arts or Reading. Several more than novelists or smooth-talking politicians. don't underestimate the subject's importance.
So, Obama's exclusion of the subject was somewhat...vexatious, it did bring to attention how America is spiraling to the bottom of the classroom. Maybe out Tiger Moms need to bully us harder. ;)
Lisa B. 4th Period
Cat - Oooh, is the mystery subject Social Studies? Did I win? Is there a prize? :D
Yes, Lisa, it is Social Studies. :) As for your price, you have won (drumroll, please).............. my respect for you as a person. *cheers from the audience* Congratulations!!!! You may now exit out the side door.
Also, you jokingly raised a good point. I actually do think we need to be a little harsher when it comes to education. I read a memoir by Firoozeh Dumas, an Iranian-American, and she talks about how she doesn't understand the American concept of "Everyone plays, everyone wins." (Her book, Funny in Farsi, is a highly entertaining read. I thoroughly recommend it to everyone.) No, people, not everyone wins; that's why schools make it a point to separate Honor Roll students from non-Honor Roll Students. I don't think a student should be patted on his back and told that he did a good job when that student earned a "C" for the quarter because he didn't put in the most effort possible. If we want a better educational system, we have to reform it to model that of former Iranian private schools and current Chinese and Japanese schools. We need longer school hours and more emphasis on just how important school is. Mediocre shouldn't cut it any more.
I think our next generation of adults is going to be a bunch of lazy people who think that they deserve the best out of life without putting anything in. Schools and parents have to become tougher on their kids. If not, we're not going to get any results, and America'll be screwed.
Cat said that a student that gets a "C" did not put all his effort into it. This is most definitely not always true. Grades are not always an accurate measure of work put into a class. I have all "A"s, and my effort put into different classes for those "A"s is completely different. I know that I work a lot harder for my American History "A", than for my "A" in Spanish. I also know that different people work differently for the same grade sometimes.
Francisco Rivera Pd. 5
I also think that longer school days are not a solution if time is still wasted like it is now.
I am also not for longer school hours, I think that is not the solution.
No, I said that a student got "C" because he did not put all his effort into it. If he got a "C" and put all his effort into it, then good for him; it's a difficult class.
"I don't think a student should be patted on his back and told that he did a good job when that student earned a "C" for the quarter because he didn't put in the most effort possible."
My interpretation was that because the student got a "C", he did not do a good job. This is false.
Yeah, it's important to excell in science and math, but we need to focus more attention on reading and writing. Without books and language, it would be hard to express our thoughts and ideas. So while v=td (or velocity equals time by distance,) this doesn't describe the idea that I crashed into the mailbox today on a bike.
Samantha (and a few others), you are oversimplifying. When Obama does not mention LA in his speech, it is not an invitation for everyone to stop writing. Therefore, your example makes no sense (please don't take it offensively). No one here has said that we should stop learning how to speak and write English.
Wow, I take a couple of days off, and I miss quite a debate! *smiles* THIS discourse is exactly the purpose of the blog. It only took half the year, but I feel successful.
And, if I may point out, the discourse comes through the fine art of acquiring strong reading and writing skills. Those of you who are more proficient in these areas are making your arguments skillfully. (I am proud.) That said you all have valid points. By posting this article, I am not negating the importance of math and science. Obviously, these are important, and in our "Race to the Top," students must push harder in these areas, but writing and reading skills need an equal push. Without these skills being honed, the ability to communicate knowledge is lost. And Cat, yes, studying social studies is invaluable for obvious reasons. It's all in the balance. While the focus of President Obama's speech could have still focused on math and science, the mention of balance also should have been included.
I personally think that all we have to do to raise the overall Reading and Language Arts scores in the coming years is to try to encourage kids to read from an early age in which they are still moldable. I'm pretty sure that'll be more effective than any tutoring or class they'll ever take later on.
I do agree with Francisco and Cat. I understand why Obama would not include language arts in his speech. Although it is a necessary subject that students must learn, no one is ever really famous for being a poet or having a profession in the English category. I have learned this from one of FCAT EXPLORER'S essays: Although people can be famous for some of there poems most poets die in poverty. I mean I've personally never heard of a famous speech writer or someone famous for grammar. The only people who expose literature that are actually famous, or produce major money, are authors in my view. I think Obama mentioned science and math because many high paying jobs include mathematics and science. Also discoveries are made everyday in those subjects. Some of those discoveries even bring money to the U.S. While in language arts there should just be a big huge book that has all the rules. So yes, I do understand Obama's choice. Rachel Newman pd3
Rachel, you said that you understood Obama's choice. I don't understand how that is agreeing with Cat. We all agree that Language Arts is important, that is not the point of the debate. We are arguing whether Obama should have included LA in his speech, I say no and Cat says yes. From your comment, you agree with only me. Could you please clear that up?
Obviously agrees with you, Cat? From Rachel's comment, she agreed with me. She said she understood Obama's choice. As for clear winner, I dont think anyone will necessarily win here.
Francisco Rivera Pd. 5 (and I love how Cat thinks she's famous enough to not sign her blog post :P)
I thought that this RANT, for lack of a better word was uncalled for! Without a doubt Science and Math are more important that History or Language Arts. Sure, knowing the presidents and how to spell onomatopoeia is great, but not as revolutionary as addition or biology. Those two subjects solve problems.
I do not agree with Ryan's post, in fact, I found some pretty deep flaws in it. I am not sure that math and science are necessarily more important than LA and history. Communication and the written word may be one of man's greatest accomplishments, and history is a way to learn from our past mistakes and successes. Those subjects are not limited to spelling obscure words and memorizing names of historical figures. In fact, LA, diplomacy, solves many problems and history shows us past problems so we can avoid them in the future.
Francisco Rivera Pd. 5
(Just saying, my view on whether Obama should have included Language Arts in his speech remains unchanged.)
And Ryan, I fail to see how math and science are better than Language Arts. I mean, math may have led to the building of houses and stuff, but without the power of language, we would never have formed groups of people, and thus, societies would never have been created.
Sorry for the confusion I was skimming through other blog posts before I posted and I guess I must have read a name wrong or something, but I agree with Sisco. Ryan although I prefer mathematics and (sometimes science) over language arts any day, I still belief that it is an important subject. I mean without it everyone could be speaking a different dialect or everyone could be speaking incorrectly. I also believe that if you are well educated in language arts, then when you talk to people they well actually understand you, opposed to if you do not know grammar and proper English, people will take you less seriously.
I kind of agree with Ryan mainly because, although reading and writing are of great importance, I believe that there is nothing else that is new to discover in writing or Language Arts. Science and math have many more things that have not yet been discovered. However, language has really helped us in the past and the present and it kind of looks like Ryan doesn't realize that. Sorry Ryan. And Cat I agree with you that without language and writing, people wouldn't have formed society. Language has indeed help mankind but what else is there that we can learn about language that nobody has ever discovered before? I believe language has formed society, but math and science can improve society.
I'm not sure why an area of study has to lead to discoveries to be considered important.
Imagine what we wouldn't have if people weren't interested in language arts... What would entertain you or fulfill you emotionally and even intellectually? Imagine a world without....
I agree with you, Brett. But language also helps incorporate new ideas into society. For example, Martin Luther spread his new version of Catholicism (or was it Christianity?) by spreading convincing pamphlets about his ideas. With the written word, he was able to introduce a whole different branch of religion into society. So, language not only formed society, but also helps it change and grow.
Personally, since both my parents are personal trainers and both math and science play a huge role in that, I've grown to believe that those are the most important subjects. Of course, everyone must be at least familiar with other subjects such as reading and writing, languages, and history. Reading and writing because when writing a college application, one wants to sound professional and impressive, not someone who talks slang all the time and can't come up with better adjectives than "awesome" and "cool." Language is extremely important for those who travel. Learning different languages is very beneficial because it helps you communicate with others better, makes for a more interesting resume for careers and colleges, and when you go to a different country you can understand the things around you better and more fluently rather than having to rely on English being the universal language in business. In reality, not everyone knows English. We've all comes across people who struggle with new languages. If schools are encouraged to teach foreign languages, students will definitely get involved because learning a new language at this age is much easier that trying to teach yourself later in life. Although math and science may be important subjects in school, they should be required to teach other subjects such as reading, writing, languages and history just as strongly since it will result in a much more open understanding of people, places, and the world.
Well, I definitely think that Language Arts and reading are essential subjects to emphasize in schools. Communication, writing, speaking skills, and correct grammar is necessary for everyday life. However, it seems that more and more countries are competing in science and technology. Technology, inventions, and discoveries improve society, so that must be why President Obama is so intent on improving it. It's all about products and demands, so whatever invention is very popular will be good for the economy and can make everyday life better. I feel like Language Arts is the basic and obvious subject to study and master. But once that's accomplished, science and math should be the main two subjects to encourage. Courtney E. pd 3
Yeah, I understand why our country needs to focus on science and math. However, I disagree with anyone who thinks that Language Arts is unimportant. Writing and speaking skills and grammar ARE used in everyday life, including science and math. Successful scientist or mathematics knew how to be successful through their words. By the way, Rachel, its I *believe, not "I belief" (I only say that because I like to tease Rachel). But still, even though there aren't too many famous poets, the country should want to prosper with writing and reading skills as well as math and science. -Jen Schonberger period 3
Ummm, Jen? There are a BUNCH of famous poets. Frost, Dickinson, Hughes? Shel Silverstein!?! I actually think that most people can name more famous poets and writers than they can scientists and mathematicians.
Sorry, I take that back. I know there are a lot of famous poets and writers, and I can name a bunch too. I'm more interested in writing than math and science, but I feel like in school, most kids learn more about scientists and mathematicians than writers. -Jen S. p 3 :)
Hey, guys! Everyone on this blog is too concerned with learning to talk and speech. It's quite possible to learn to talk without a class. I think that Obama should have included Language Arts and writing into his speech, not just Math and Science. This isn't because of the ability of speech but because of career opportunities. Sure, Math and Science are the "most important" subjects in school, but what if someone wants to be a writer or a journalist? Yeah, they'll come across Science and Math, (everyone does, obviously)but Language Arts will definitely dominate those subjects in their professional lives. I think as president, Obama should have covered everyone's future career. I think the focus has to drift away from being just Math and Science. Also, what about having a lot more focus on social studies and foreign languages? Because the United States is becoming more of a melting pot, don't you think that it's kind of important? We have a lot of scientists and engineers already. (Not saying that we have too many)The world could be a more peaceful place if more people expressed feelings into writing or art. Also, entertaining debate, Francisco and Cat. :) Gabi Shim-Francis P5
@Cat- I think what Jen meant is that there aren't really famous, as in like rich, poets. Ya, Shel Silverstein and some make lots of money with their books; however, most poets do die in poverty. (haha another s;sc,sentence) @Brett- I agree with you. I feel that new discoveries definitely create the difference between Language Arts, and math and science. By the way, GO STEELERS. @Mrs. Powers- It's not that an area of study has to lead to discoveries to be considered important. I do not agree with that. But, the new discoveries lead to more money for the U.S. That is why I think Obama mentioned math and science in his speech and not language arts because the new discoveries made in math and science bring more money to the country which is what we want. Furthermore, I think that TV and movies are new discoveries. I mean compare an old movie made in black and white to an up to date movie like Avatar. I mean special effects has changed tremendously throughout the years due to new discoveries in technology. However, I do agree that without language arts we would be no where in society.
@Rachel - Based on your own logic, studying language arts does bring money into our country. Unless you think the movie/tv industry is not a money-maker...
@Mrs.Powers- I think language arts is more technology not language arts. If talking were language arts than everything involves language arts. I think I'm getting off topic I do think language arts is very important but I understand Obama's thinking. My final statement actually addressing the topic.
@Rachel- I'm pretty sure this is a typo, but I do not understand your statement of how "language arts is more technology not language arts." Could you explain that? Also, according to Merriam-Webster, this is the definition of language arts: the subjects (as reading, spelling, literature, and composition) that aim at developing the student's comprehension and capacity for use of written and oral language. Thus, language arts does involve speaking and writing.
My personal point of view is that Language Arts is equally as important as math and science. These subjects all work together to create the society that we live in now. If a scientist proposed a new revolutionary theory of a law of nature, then the only way to express it is through some form of Language Arts. Either by communicating with other scientists through speech or posting his theory on the Internet, all of these methods involve speaking or writing, and thus, they also involve Language Arts. Similarly, let's say that a writer wants to publish a new work online. In order to do that, they would have to use technology such as a computer. This technology could not have been invented without math and science. Even printing a work of literature on paper involves technology created by math and science. As such, no subject can be particularly successful without utilizing strategies of another subject. Although these strategies are categorized into different subjects, mixed together, they all play a part in how our lives are like, and how society came to be the way it is now.
Just because Obama did not specifically mention Language Arts in his speech doesn't mean he believes it isn't as important. From previous blog posts, it seems that the popular belief is that math and science are more essential parts of education. Thus, in order to prove a point and persuade the common man, a speech should contain information that most of the people believe as more correct. Certainly, other subjects such as Language Arts, social studies, and foreign languages are extremely important. However, if the popular belief is indeed that math and science are more important, then I understand that President Obama would focus more on those subjects and try to appeal to as many people as possible.
@Brett-I believe that discoveries in math and science are often more important, but that isn't to say there aren't new things being discovered about Language Arts. Oral and written language have constantly changed throughout history, and I believe that that pattern will still continue. New languages are being used and new information about popular languages are being discovered all the time.
@Francisco and Cat- I do not believe that you guys have much to argue about. Both of you admit that math, science, Language Arts, and other subjects are all extremely important. The only thing you guys are trying to argue about is whether or not President Obama should have put Language Arts in his speech. Even then, I do not believe you two are arguing over the same thing. Francisco only said that he does not believe it was necessary for Obama to put Language Arts in his speech, while Cat was arguing that he should have. This does not necessarily mean that Francisco was saying that Obama should NOT have put Language Arts in his speech. He was only saying that it was not NEEDED. It is a good idea to mention Language Arts (and other subjects like history and foregin language) during his speech, but I also believe that it wasn't necessary to put Language Arts in his speech.
@Lawrence The whole fun of it IS arguing. :) Why do you think that's all Sisco and I did? :P Of course, we're both stubborn people, so that contributed to the bickering, as well. As for your theory as to why Obama did not mention LA: I think that it is a pretty good one. The only thing is, that when it comes to math and science, there is no "in between". Most people either love them or hate them, so there obviously are some people who believe that math and science aren't THE most important subjects. But yeah, I can see where you are coming from on that theory.
I agree with you on the idea that you can't have a subject without the other because it is true. :)
I actually was saying that adding Language Arts would not have benefitted the speech.
I actually do not think that many of the points above relating to the importance of Language Arts are important. When Obama says a subject, it is to urge people to further their knowledge in an advanced level. Therefore, just the use of English doesn't really demonstrate the importance of Language Arts in the context we are in. It is as if I would say that without studying math, we wouldn't be able to count, and without science, we would think the Earth is flat.
We need to compare advanced uses of math and science (like college level) with college level Language Arts abilities.
LOL. I read that exact same article this morning. :)
I found it funny that the article flew in the face of everything Obama said. I happen to disagree with the article on the basis that the were fewer participants in Science Fair because of less teacher involvement. That probably does have something to do with it, but it's also correlated to the students. I know that the only reason 95% of eight-grade kids (including myself) do Science Fair is because it is a mandatory project for middle school students. Once that obligation disappears, you're going to get a lot fewer people entering their experiments in for judging.
I completely understand why Obama focused on math and science. Now, he is stating that we need to focus more on teachings of math and science in the younger years because we are falling behind other countries in those fields of learning. I do believe though, that he should also focus on reading and writing, but just not as much (just my opinion.) This is because most of the well educated and well paying jobs these days mostly focus around the areas of math and science. For example, becoming a vet, a doctor, and dentist ect. Even a scientist, or even a sales clerk! China and India and other countries are producing more people who are more highly educated in math and science then us. Even though we have fallen behind other countries, we still need to keep our country's citizens reading and writing skills up.
I believe that here in the U.S we lack far behind other countries in not just math and science, but in every other important core subject as well. The main reason for this is that in our school system they are under the erroneous impression that every student should begin at regular classes and if adept enough be moved up to the advanced and A.P classes. Problem with this is that the general consensus of students is that such classes are for the "smart" or "geniuses" of the world, when in reality all students should be subjected from an early age to this advanced levels of schooling. This seems to me like the only chance that our educational system has of eventually coming to equal or pherhaps even superior terms to that of other countries.
I find it kind of funny the Cat and Francisco are having such a discussion simply on a yes or no question. I've spent at least ten minutes reading the dispute over one sentence that wasn't there. It does seem logical that President Obama would not include Language Arts. Language Arts is quite vital, but America is doing fine with that. The problem is with math and science.
The world's advancements (no offense Mrs. Powers...) are happening because of the fields of math and science and not language arts. Electric cars, jet packs, and medical advancements rely on the intertwining fields. From my experience, and the long science video from Friday, minds such as Steven Hawking create marvelous developments not because of communication but because of the science. If we want to try to get America past the global economic depression, a major problem with U.S. citizens, then we have to try to beat the quickly developing countries, China and India, to getting such progress before us. They are rapidly developing because of their devotion into achieving progress in math and science. Another J.K. Rowling book would not bring America out of its problems (although another Harry Potter book would be nice =D ). Because of this, Obama found that his State of the Union speech should focus more in simply pleasing the public like any president would.
Camille De Jesus, Period 5 What do I think? I agree with the author of this article. Writing and reading is just as important as math and science. These subjects are each used EVERY SINGLE DAY and are equally important. You can't go throughout life without ANY of these subjects. People are even speaking in text form these days! Without writing and reading there would be no Shakespeare or Edgar Poe! Aren't they just as important as Einstein and Galileo? I don't think there should be an emphasis on any certain subjects. I think there should be an emphasis on school, education, and learning because i believe art such as: music, drama and painting are important also. These sort of classes help some people find their passions and help them use their individuality and creativity. P.E. is also important, but not as important as math, science, reading, writing...you know what I mean.
Everyone's saying that math and science are more important and other countries compete on this. This is true and the competition helps us get the will to discover, learn, improve, etc. But, as shown in the article, we're already doing great in the math and science department already and failing in Language Arts. It's time to start focusing on other subjects too. That doesn't mean stop the focus on math and science altogether, it just means evening up our skills in Language Arts.
Ummmm, Jake, I don't think most students are fine with language arts. I remember in my FCAT testing center, I said the words "suitable testing environment," and got blank looks from a little more than half the class. Meaning that at least 10 kids in the eighth grade did not know what the word "suitable" meant. I personally find that ridiculous. Also, once you get to the point in which the word "like" is the most commonly-used word in a person's lexicon, you know you have some serious teaching to do.
The article makes a lot of sense and so does Fransisco. Basically, Obama wants more people to learn math and science so that new discoveries can be made. Also, since these subjects are so important when talking about our nations jobs and top-paying professions, they need to be pushed harder in schools. The science fair scenario completely represents this. Not that many people want to participate in science fair and science related topics; however, our country needs scientists. This is probably just another reason why Obama mentioned math and science in his speech.
Although i personally think that advances in math and science are more important then language arts, Obama should not have forgotten to mention it as well. Sure inventions, technology, and medicine are all involved with math and science, but without reading writing, and languages how would we be able to transfer our findings and works to other countries or other scientists for improvement. Language Arts is very important for both math and science too work and for the information of that work to be sent. Ricardo Hesse, First Period
I think that Obama's speech could have included other subjects such as writing or reading. It is a shame that the United States has such low percentages in subjects being that the average proficiency is only in the twenty and thirty percents. Writing can be used in many aspects of life but many students lack the language abilities and creative thinking to be able to construct a well written essay. It may be that there is bad education, or simply that the children of this age are not motivated or encouraged to be high achievers in school. Some people have potential, but just take the easy way out and stay in regular classes where their full capabilities are not being used. At the same time though, Science and Math are used more in medical or engineering discoveries than reading or writing. This could be why Obama didn't address them in the speech.
I'm going to bring Fran's idea back. Yes, Language Arts and Writing are important, but Foreign Language has to be one of the most important topics addressed in the article. Considering one of our country's nick-names is "The Melting Pot" I would imagine that knowing other languages besides English would help expand our industry immensely. Although it is a requirement for students to learn a foreign language in order to graduate, many students do not take this seriously. To avoid being a hypocrite, this is sometimes because the pupils are not particularly interested in those languages. By expanding the amount of languages a student can take a class in, children can find a language that appeals to their interests rather than just settling for Spanish or French. It is those students who pick foreign languages that they like, rather then feel they have to take, that score higher grades. Learning is much more fun when you actually have a desire for the information. Students who excel in their language classes can go on to be translators or traders in foreign countries, expanding our economy, one of the main topics in Obama's speech. Thus, expanding the way America teaches foreign language should have been added to the President's State of the Union Speech. Katelynn A. Period 3
Always remember to use proper writing conventions when posting a comment on this blog! Please include your LA PERIOD, first name, and initial of last name, so I know who you are!
I think that Obama should have included more Language Arts into his speech because such a huge part of the speech was based on education. Obama wrote a great speech, but like what the article said, he could have emphasised a certain subject a little more. The best part is that as my dad and I were watching this, we noticed three or four grammatical mistakes that Obama made. Not to be hypercitical or anything, I bet that I made a few mistakes in this post, but still, i'm not the President.
ReplyDeleteKevin Scott Period 5
I'm not necessarily sure why Obama would need to include Language Arts in his speech. Nations are competing with advances in engineering, medicine, and other branches of scientific advances. They are not really comparing which nation has the best writers, or the best-selling novels.
ReplyDeleteNow, don't get me wrong; I completely understand the importance of Language Arts in my life, and that of everyone else. I just think that great minds in math and science would benefit the country more than those in Language Arts. Obama is pointing this out, and including all subjects would just take away from the speech.
Francisco Rivera
It's understandable why Obama wouldn't include Language Arts in his speech. I mean, Math and Science are the two subjects that all countries try to be the best in, and the world's future relies on these subjects. Math and science are everywhere, from New York City's skyscrapers to China's labs.
ReplyDeleteNow, I did notice in the article one topic I think Obama should have spoken about. Foreign Languages. Everyone knows that America is involved in just about every country in the world, and we all know the world has many different languages. Due to this, Americans should be much more proficient in foreign languages. This is one subject I believe Obama should have expanded on.
Francisco (Fran) Angulo Per. 2
I understand why math and science were put ahead of language arts skills in Obama's speech. Writing and reading skills are necessary in any job, but so are science and math. In some jobs, math is the dominant skill used. Science and math are also languages that the whole world knows.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, even to write Obama's speech, manny people would have to be very skilled in writing.
To Fransisco R.: According to you, "I just think that great minds in math and science would benefit the country more than those in Language Arts. Obama is pointing this out, and including all subjects would just take away from the speech." What do you think the speech would be like if Language Art skills weren't as important and were not focused on at school? Do you think that the speech would still have the same impact if it was not written as well?
Yuval S.
Period 3
I don't know if I should feel offended that my name was misspelled by Uval. Yes, that was intentional.
ReplyDeleteI think that my comment was misinterpreted. I was sharing my point of view as in to why I understand Obama's choice in not including Language Arts in his speech. I am in no way whatsoever saying Language Arts is not important, because in my opinion, it is.
Francisco Rivera
Period 5
I think that Obama should have included Language Arts and Reading into his speech because it is a part of our everyday lives. Writing an essay is what gets us into college and if we don't read books to improve our vocabulary why would the colleges want us? Do you think that the people that use like and um and first-grade level words in their sentences will get chosen through an interview? So obviously, it was a big mistake for Obama to exclude Language Arts and Reading in his speech.
ReplyDeleteAlso, some people above mentioned that Science and Math is what the nation's are best at, but that means that they should most definitely be focusing on Reading and Language Arts. Shouldn't they want their nation to be well-rounded in education. I mean in parts of the world people can't even read, oh wait that doesn't matter because their country is amazing at Science. That makes no sense.
-Marina Rubio
Period 6
@Marina
ReplyDeleteIf a person is amazing at math and science, it's because he/she received a proper education whether from that person's parents or from a school. If that person received a proper education, I'm willing to bet he/she can read. Thus, (using the Law of Syllogism :D) if a person is amazing at math and science, then I'm willing to bet he/she can read. Also, nations in which the literacy rates are extremely low aren't worrying about math and science or even reading; they're focusing more on trying to keep most of their populations from dying of malnutrition or disease.
Now, I agree with Sisco (For anyone who’s wondering, that would be Francisco R.), a country benefits more from, say, a new machine that can quickly and accurately perform open-heart surgeries than from a new Shakespeare. They each bring progress into their own fields, but the heart-surgery machine more so than the Shakespeare’s reincarnation dude.
I think everyone knows that a nerd will one day end up being his/her boss due to the whole Bill Gates/Mark Zuckerberg era, right? They are both extremely gifted people in their fields of (what would that be?) computer science intertwined with advanced mathematics? (I probably did not get that right.) Let’s just say coding. However, some of the highest positions in our country aren’t exactly filled by mathematical geniuses or rocket scientists. Take the role of President for example. Mr. Obama doesn’t have to know how to code 3-D surfaces into .obj files. However, he has to be an extremely eloquent person so that he can deliver captivating, motivational speeches, an enormous part of his job. Therefore, he depends more on his reading and writing skills for his job than on mathematical theorems and Newton’s Three Laws; that would be a case in which Language Arts is more important than Science and Math.
On a side note, one very important subject, has been excluded both from Obama’s speech and from this conversation. It’s a subject that helps us understand each other as different nations and as different cultures. It helps us understand where other countries are coming from and where we are coming from. Can anyone guess what that is?
Caterina Golner
Period 2
PS- I love how Sisco thinks he's famous enough to not have to put which period he's in. :)
I believe that the main argument that is used to say that Obama should have included Language Arts in his speech is that it is important. On a personal level, this is completely accurate. However, that alone is not necessarily reason enough for Obama to include it in his speech.
ReplyDeleteMy logic is that as a nation, we need more math and science people as opposed to Language Arts people. We already have enough eloquent politicians, and would benefit from more engineers.
Francisco (not Sisco or Fransisco) Rivera
Pd. 5
@Sisco :P
ReplyDeleteLanguage Arts is important because it directly affects how well a person will be able to communicate (whether it be verbally, writtenly, textedly, etc.) with others later on in his/her life. There are plenty of mathematically and scientifically inclined people who don't know how to express themselves. They end up depressed and lonely, ostracized by society. (Okay, that was slightly dramatic.)
Caterina Golner
Period 2
I think that Cat got sidetracked in her post. We are discussing whether Obama should have included Language Arts in his speech, not if it is important or not.
ReplyDeleteAlso, by not including it in his speech, he is not sending out a message to everyone to stop studying Language Arts. He is merely putting emphasis on math and science, something I agree with.
Francisco Rivera
Pd. 5
Yes, and my comment was the reason why he should have put Language Arts in his speech.
ReplyDeleteMy question is: what kind of programs can Obama put in place to try to emphasize the importance of Language Arts?
Disclaimer: I already have a bit of a penchant for the Language Arts/Social Studies side of the curriculum, so this may come out biased.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, putting all this emphasis on the more analytical subjects is fantastic, but certain students may be more inclined to thrive under the "right-brained" subjects, and President Obama snubbed those students. To maintain a balance, both art and culture need to flourish side-by-side with scientific and mathematical advancements. Or at least I hope so. Because if not, I'm out of prospective careers. :D
No subject eclipses the other. As Kevin pointed out, President Obama's grammatical slips were more than just a little ironic. With the new "wired-in" generation gradually replacing Shakespeare with "Twitriture," L.A. seems more important than ever. He should not have neglected to mention.
I have to agree with Cat. I mean, not only has math and science seem to be the core of the curriculum, but some countries such as France and Britain were considering making the classes of History, Geography, and Reading OPTIONAL (according to a recent Economist article.)Hopefully, this isn't starting the trend- the consequences would certainly be dire.
And Francisco, there are plenty of careers- several which have a tremendous impact on society- which are centered on Language Arts or Reading. Several more than novelists or smooth-talking politicians. don't underestimate the subject's importance.
So, Obama's exclusion of the subject was somewhat...vexatious, it did bring to attention how America is spiraling to the bottom of the classroom. Maybe out Tiger Moms need to bully us harder. ;)
Lisa B.
4th Period
Cat - Oooh, is the mystery subject Social Studies? Did I win? Is there a prize? :D
Yes, Lisa, it is Social Studies. :) As for your price, you have won (drumroll, please).............. my respect for you as a person. *cheers from the audience* Congratulations!!!! You may now exit out the side door.
ReplyDeleteAlso, you jokingly raised a good point. I actually do think we need to be a little harsher when it comes to education. I read a memoir by Firoozeh Dumas, an Iranian-American, and she talks about how she doesn't understand the American concept of "Everyone plays, everyone wins." (Her book, Funny in Farsi, is a highly entertaining read. I thoroughly recommend it to everyone.) No, people, not everyone wins; that's why schools make it a point to separate Honor Roll students from non-Honor Roll Students. I don't think a student should be patted on his back and told that he did a good job when that student earned a "C" for the quarter because he didn't put in the most effort possible. If we want a better educational system, we have to reform it to model that of former Iranian private schools and current Chinese and Japanese schools. We need longer school hours and more emphasis on just how important school is. Mediocre shouldn't cut it any more.
I think our next generation of adults is going to be a bunch of lazy people who think that they deserve the best out of life without putting anything in. Schools and parents have to become tougher on their kids. If not, we're not going to get any results, and America'll be screwed.
Cat said that a student that gets a "C" did not put all his effort into it. This is most definitely not always true. Grades are not always an accurate measure of work put into a class.
ReplyDeleteI have all "A"s, and my effort put into different classes for those "A"s is completely different. I know that I work a lot harder for my American History "A", than for my "A" in Spanish. I also know that different people work differently for the same grade sometimes.
Francisco Rivera
Pd. 5
I also think that longer school days are not a solution if time is still wasted like it is now.
I am also not for longer school hours, I think that is not the solution.
No, I said that a student got "C" because he did not put all his effort into it. If he got a "C" and put all his effort into it, then good for him; it's a difficult class.
ReplyDeleteCat, you actually said:
ReplyDelete"I don't think a student should be patted on his back and told that he did a good job when that student earned a "C" for the quarter because he didn't put in the most effort possible."
My interpretation was that because the student got a "C", he did not do a good job. This is false.
Francisco Rivera
Pd. 5
Yes, your interpretation IS false.
ReplyDeleteYeah, it's important to excell in science and math, but we need to focus more attention on reading and writing. Without books and language, it would be hard to express our thoughts and ideas. So while v=td (or velocity equals time by distance,) this doesn't describe the idea that I crashed into the mailbox today on a bike.
ReplyDeleteLOL. That comment was so non sequitur. :)
ReplyDeleteSamantha (and a few others), you are oversimplifying. When Obama does not mention LA in his speech, it is not an invitation for everyone to stop writing. Therefore, your example makes no sense (please don't take it offensively). No one here has said that we should stop learning how to speak and write English.
ReplyDeleteFrancisco Rivera
Pd. 5
No, we're just saying we should stress the importance of reading and writing more often. That's why everyone should READ!!!!
ReplyDeleteWow, I take a couple of days off, and I miss quite a debate! *smiles* THIS discourse is exactly the purpose of the blog. It only took half the year, but I feel successful.
ReplyDeleteAnd, if I may point out, the discourse comes through the fine art of acquiring strong reading and writing skills. Those of you who are more proficient in these areas are making your arguments skillfully. (I am proud.) That said you all have valid points. By posting this article, I am not negating the importance of math and science. Obviously, these are important, and in our "Race to the Top," students must push harder in these areas, but writing and reading skills need an equal push. Without these skills being honed, the ability to communicate knowledge is lost. And Cat, yes, studying social studies is invaluable for obvious reasons. It's all in the balance. While the focus of President Obama's speech could have still focused on math and science, the mention of balance also should have been included.
Nice segway, Mrs. Powers. :)
ReplyDeleteI personally think that all we have to do to raise the overall Reading and Language Arts scores in the coming years is to try to encourage kids to read from an early age in which they are still moldable. I'm pretty sure that'll be more effective than any tutoring or class they'll ever take later on.
I do agree with Francisco and Cat. I understand why Obama would not include language arts in his speech. Although it is a necessary subject that students must learn, no one is ever really famous for being a poet or having a profession in the English category. I have learned this from one of FCAT EXPLORER'S essays: Although people can be famous for some of there poems most poets die in poverty. I mean I've personally never heard of a famous speech writer or someone famous for grammar. The only people who expose literature that are actually famous, or produce major money, are authors in my view. I think Obama mentioned science and math because many high paying jobs include mathematics and science. Also discoveries are made everyday in those subjects. Some of those discoveries even bring money to the U.S. While in language arts there should just be a big huge book that has all the rules. So yes, I do understand Obama's choice.
ReplyDeleteRachel Newman
pd3
Rachel, you said that you understood Obama's choice. I don't understand how that is agreeing with Cat. We all agree that Language Arts is important, that is not the point of the debate. We are arguing whether Obama should have included LA in his speech, I say no and Cat says yes. From your comment, you agree with only me. Could you please clear that up?
ReplyDeleteFrancisco Rivera
Pd. 5
@ Samantha - Please include your LA PERIOD, first name, and initial of last name, so I know who you are!
ReplyDeleteAlso, you should read through previous comments before posting your own. Try to add to the discourse in addition to stating your own views. :)
Let the poor girl be, Francisco. She obviously agrees with me as I am the clear winner. :D
ReplyDeleteObviously agrees with you, Cat? From Rachel's comment, she agreed with me. She said she understood Obama's choice. As for clear winner, I dont think anyone will necessarily win here.
ReplyDeleteFrancisco Rivera
Pd. 5
(and I love how Cat thinks she's famous enough to not sign her blog post :P)
I thought that this RANT, for lack of a better word was uncalled for! Without a doubt Science and Math are more important that History or Language Arts. Sure, knowing the presidents and how to spell onomatopoeia is great, but not as revolutionary as addition or biology. Those two subjects solve problems.
ReplyDeleteRyan G p6
Take it away, Sisco.
ReplyDeleteI do not agree with Ryan's post, in fact, I found some pretty deep flaws in it. I am not sure that math and science are necessarily more important than LA and history. Communication and the written word may be one of man's greatest accomplishments, and history is a way to learn from our past mistakes and successes. Those subjects are not limited to spelling obscure words and memorizing names of historical figures.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, LA, diplomacy, solves many problems and history shows us past problems so we can avoid them in the future.
Francisco Rivera
Pd. 5
(Just saying, my view on whether Obama should have included Language Arts in his speech remains unchanged.)
You go, Sisco. :)
ReplyDeleteAnd Ryan, I fail to see how math and science are better than Language Arts. I mean, math may have led to the building of houses and stuff, but without the power of language, we would never have formed groups of people, and thus, societies would never have been created.
Sorry for the confusion I was skimming through other blog posts before I posted and I guess I must have read a name wrong or something, but I agree with Sisco. Ryan although I prefer mathematics and (sometimes science) over language arts any day, I still belief that it is an important subject. I mean without it everyone could be speaking a different dialect or everyone could be speaking incorrectly. I also believe that if you are well educated in language arts, then when you talk to people they well actually understand you, opposed to if you do not know grammar and proper English, people will take you less seriously.
ReplyDeleteI kind of agree with Ryan mainly because, although reading and writing are of great importance, I believe that there is nothing else that is new to discover in writing or Language Arts. Science and math have many more things that have not yet been discovered. However, language has really helped us in the past and the present and it kind of looks like Ryan doesn't realize that. Sorry Ryan. And Cat I agree with you that without language and writing, people wouldn't have formed society. Language has indeed help mankind but what else is there that we can learn about language that nobody has ever discovered before? I believe language has formed society, but math and science can improve society.
ReplyDeleteBrett Bailey
Pd. 6
I'm not sure why an area of study has to lead to discoveries to be considered important.
ReplyDeleteImagine what we wouldn't have if people weren't interested in language arts... What would entertain you or fulfill you emotionally and even intellectually? Imagine a world without....
I agree with you, Brett. But language also helps incorporate new ideas into society. For example, Martin Luther spread his new version of Catholicism (or was it Christianity?) by spreading convincing pamphlets about his ideas. With the written word, he was able to introduce a whole different branch of religion into society. So, language not only formed society, but also helps it change and grow.
ReplyDeleteOh god. A world full of books? Unimaginable.
And songs without lyrics? Nooooooo!!
Posting for Tania J. period 1
ReplyDeletePersonally, since both my parents are personal trainers and both math and science play a huge role in that, I've grown to believe that those are the most important subjects. Of course, everyone must be at least familiar with other subjects such as reading and writing, languages, and history. Reading and writing because when writing a college application, one wants to sound professional and impressive, not someone who talks slang all the time and can't come up with better adjectives than "awesome" and "cool." Language is extremely important for those who travel. Learning different languages is very beneficial because it helps you communicate with others better, makes for a more interesting resume for careers and colleges, and when you go to a different country you can understand the things around you better and more fluently rather than having to rely on English being the universal language in business. In reality, not everyone knows English. We've all comes across people who struggle with new languages. If schools are encouraged to teach foreign languages, students will definitely get involved because learning a new language at this age is much easier that trying to teach yourself later in life. Although math and science may be important subjects in school, they should be required to teach other subjects such as reading, writing, languages and history just as strongly since it will result in a much more open understanding of people, places, and the world.
--Tania J.
@ Cat - and NO movies or TV or theater...
ReplyDeleteJust thinking about it is making me woozy.
ReplyDeleteor magazines, newspapers, BLOGS (gasp!!!)
ReplyDeleteNO!!!!!
ReplyDeleteWell, I definitely think that Language Arts and reading are essential subjects to emphasize in schools. Communication, writing, speaking skills, and correct grammar is necessary for everyday life. However, it seems that more and more countries are competing in science and technology. Technology, inventions, and discoveries improve society, so that must be why President Obama is so intent on improving it. It's all about products and demands, so whatever invention is very popular will be good for the economy and can make everyday life better. I feel like Language Arts is the basic and obvious subject to study and master. But once that's accomplished, science and math should be the main two subjects to encourage.
ReplyDeleteCourtney E. pd 3
Yeah, I understand why our country needs to focus on science and math. However, I disagree with anyone who thinks that Language Arts is unimportant. Writing and speaking skills and grammar ARE used in everyday life, including science and math. Successful scientist or mathematics knew how to be successful through their words. By the way, Rachel, its I *believe, not "I belief" (I only say that because I like to tease Rachel). But still, even though there aren't too many famous poets, the country should want to prosper with writing and reading skills as well as math and science.
ReplyDelete-Jen Schonberger period 3
Ummm, Jen? There are a BUNCH of famous poets. Frost, Dickinson, Hughes? Shel Silverstein!?! I actually think that most people can name more famous poets and writers than they can scientists and mathematicians.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I take that back. I know there are a lot of famous poets and writers, and I can name a bunch too. I'm more interested in writing than math and science, but I feel like in school, most kids learn more about scientists and mathematicians than writers.
ReplyDelete-Jen S. p 3 :)
Hey, guys!
ReplyDeleteEveryone on this blog is too concerned with learning to talk and speech. It's quite possible to learn to talk without a class. I think that Obama should have included Language Arts and writing into his speech, not just Math and Science. This isn't because of the ability of speech but because of career opportunities. Sure, Math and Science are the "most important" subjects in school, but what if someone wants to be a writer or a journalist? Yeah, they'll come across Science and Math, (everyone does, obviously)but Language Arts will definitely dominate those subjects in their professional lives. I think as president, Obama should have covered everyone's future career. I think the focus has to drift away from being just Math and Science. Also, what about having a lot more focus on social studies and foreign languages? Because the United States is becoming more of a melting pot, don't you think that it's kind of important? We have a lot of scientists and engineers already. (Not saying that we have too many)The world could be a more peaceful place if more people expressed feelings into writing or art. Also, entertaining debate, Francisco and Cat. :)
Gabi Shim-Francis P5
@Cat- I think what Jen meant is that there aren't really famous, as in like rich, poets. Ya, Shel Silverstein and some make lots of money with their books; however, most poets do die in poverty. (haha another s;sc,sentence)
ReplyDelete@Brett- I agree with you. I feel that new discoveries definitely create the difference between Language Arts, and math and science. By the way, GO STEELERS.
@Mrs. Powers- It's not that an area of study has to lead to discoveries to be considered important. I do not agree with that. But, the new discoveries lead to more money for the U.S. That is why I think Obama mentioned math and science in his speech and not language arts because the new discoveries made in math and science bring more money to the country which is what we want. Furthermore, I think that TV and movies are new discoveries. I mean compare an old movie made in black and white to an up to date movie like Avatar. I mean special effects has changed tremendously throughout the years due to new discoveries in technology. However, I do agree that without language arts we would be no where in society.
@Rachel - Based on your own logic, studying language arts does bring money into our country. Unless you think the movie/tv industry is not a money-maker...
ReplyDelete@Mrs.Powers- I think language arts is more technology not language arts. If talking were language arts than everything involves language arts. I think I'm getting off topic I do think language arts is very important but I understand Obama's thinking. My final statement actually addressing the topic.
ReplyDelete@Rachel- I'm pretty sure this is a typo, but I do not understand your statement of how "language arts is more technology not language arts." Could you explain that?
ReplyDeleteAlso, according to Merriam-Webster, this is the definition of language arts: the subjects (as reading, spelling, literature, and composition) that aim at developing the student's comprehension and capacity for use of written and oral language.
Thus, language arts does involve speaking and writing.
My personal point of view is that Language Arts is equally as important as math and science. These subjects all work together to create the society that we live in now. If a scientist proposed a new revolutionary theory of a law of nature, then the only way to express it is through some form of Language Arts. Either by communicating with other scientists through speech or posting his theory on the Internet, all of these methods involve speaking or writing, and thus, they also involve Language Arts. Similarly, let's say that a writer wants to publish a new work online. In order to do that, they would have to use technology such as a computer. This technology could not have been invented without math and science. Even printing a work of literature on paper involves technology created by math and science. As such, no subject can be particularly successful without utilizing strategies of another subject. Although these strategies are categorized into different subjects, mixed together, they all play a part in how our lives are like, and how society came to be the way it is now.
Just because Obama did not specifically mention Language Arts in his speech doesn't mean he believes it isn't as important. From previous blog posts, it seems that the popular belief is that math and science are more essential parts of education. Thus, in order to prove a point and persuade the common man, a speech should contain information that most of the people believe as more correct. Certainly, other subjects such as Language Arts, social studies, and foreign languages are extremely important. However, if the popular belief is indeed that math and science are more important, then I understand that President Obama would focus more on those subjects and try to appeal to as many people as possible.
@Brett-I believe that discoveries in math and science are often more important, but that isn't to say there aren't new things being discovered about Language Arts. Oral and written language have constantly changed throughout history, and I believe that that pattern will still continue. New languages are being used and new information about popular languages are being discovered all the time.
@Francisco and Cat- I do not believe that you guys have much to argue about. Both of you admit that math, science, Language Arts, and other subjects are all extremely important. The only thing you guys are trying to argue about is whether or not President Obama should have put Language Arts in his speech. Even then, I do not believe you two are arguing over the same thing. Francisco only said that he does not believe it was necessary for Obama to put Language Arts in his speech, while Cat was arguing that he should have. This does not necessarily mean that Francisco was saying that Obama should NOT have put Language Arts in his speech. He was only saying that it was not NEEDED. It is a good idea to mention Language Arts (and other subjects like history and foregin language) during his speech, but I also believe that it wasn't necessary to put Language Arts in his speech.
Lawrence X.
Pd. 3
@Lawrence
ReplyDeleteThe whole fun of it IS arguing. :) Why do you think that's all Sisco and I did? :P Of course, we're both stubborn people, so that contributed to the bickering, as well. As for your theory as to why Obama did not mention LA: I think that it is a pretty good one. The only thing is, that when it comes to math and science, there is no "in between". Most people either love them or hate them, so there obviously are some people who believe that math and science aren't THE most important subjects. But yeah, I can see where you are coming from on that theory.
I agree with you on the idea that you can't have a subject without the other because it is true. :)
I actually was saying that adding Language Arts would not have benefitted the speech.
ReplyDeleteI actually do not think that many of the points above relating to the importance of Language Arts are important. When Obama says a subject, it is to urge people to further their knowledge in an advanced level. Therefore, just the use of English doesn't really demonstrate the importance of Language Arts in the context we are in. It is as if I would say that without studying math, we wouldn't be able to count, and without science, we would think the Earth is flat.
We need to compare advanced uses of math and science (like college level) with college level Language Arts abilities.
Francisco (NOT Sisco) Rivera
Pd. 5
In today's New York Times:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/05/us/05science.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper
Copy and paste the link. Totally related to this conversation.
Carry on. :)
LOL. I read that exact same article this morning. :)
ReplyDeleteI found it funny that the article flew in the face of everything Obama said. I happen to disagree with the article on the basis that the were fewer participants in Science Fair because of less teacher involvement. That probably does have something to do with it, but it's also correlated to the students. I know that the only reason 95% of eight-grade kids (including myself) do Science Fair is because it is a mandatory project for middle school students. Once that obligation disappears, you're going to get a lot fewer people entering their experiments in for judging.
I completely understand why Obama focused on math and science. Now, he is stating that we need to focus more on teachings of math and science in the younger years because we are falling behind other countries in those fields of learning. I do believe though, that he should also focus on reading and writing, but just not as much (just my opinion.) This is because most of the well educated and well paying jobs these days mostly focus around the areas of math and science. For example, becoming a vet, a doctor, and dentist ect. Even a scientist, or even a sales clerk! China and India and other countries are producing more people who are more highly educated in math and science then us. Even though we have fallen behind other countries, we still need to keep our country's citizens reading and writing skills up.
ReplyDeleteTaylor Fellman P. 5
Since when is a sales clerk well-paid?
ReplyDeleteI believe that here in the U.S we lack far behind other countries in not just math and science, but in every other important core subject as well. The main reason for this is that in our school system they are under the erroneous impression that every student should begin at regular classes and if adept enough be moved up to the advanced and A.P classes. Problem with this is that the general consensus of students is that such classes are for the "smart" or "geniuses" of the world, when in reality all students should be subjected from an early age to this advanced levels of schooling. This seems to me like the only chance that our educational system has of eventually coming to equal or pherhaps even superior terms to that of other countries.
ReplyDeleteYumi Rivas
P.2
I find it kind of funny the Cat and Francisco are having such a discussion simply on a yes or no question. I've spent at least ten minutes reading the dispute over one sentence that wasn't there. It does seem logical that President Obama would not include Language Arts. Language Arts is quite vital, but America is doing fine with that. The problem is with math and science.
ReplyDeleteThe world's advancements (no offense Mrs. Powers...) are happening because of the fields of math and science and not language arts. Electric cars, jet packs, and medical advancements rely on the intertwining fields. From my experience, and the long science video from Friday, minds such as Steven Hawking create marvelous developments not because of communication but because of the science. If we want to try to get America past the global economic depression, a major problem with U.S. citizens, then we have to try to beat the quickly developing countries, China and India, to getting such progress before us. They are rapidly developing because of their devotion into achieving progress in math and science. Another J.K. Rowling book would not bring America out of its problems (although another Harry Potter book would be nice =D ). Because of this, Obama found that his State of the Union speech should focus more in simply pleasing the public like any president would.
Jake Ukleja Period 6
Camille De Jesus, Period 5
ReplyDeleteWhat do I think? I agree with the author of this article. Writing and reading is just as important as math and science. These subjects are each used EVERY SINGLE DAY and are equally important. You can't go throughout life without ANY of these subjects. People are even speaking in text form these days! Without writing and reading there would be no Shakespeare or Edgar Poe! Aren't they just as important as Einstein and Galileo? I don't think there should be an emphasis on any certain subjects. I think there should be an emphasis on school, education, and learning because i believe art such as: music, drama and painting are important also. These sort of classes help some people find their passions and help them use their individuality and creativity. P.E. is also important, but not as important as math, science, reading, writing...you know what I mean.
Everyone's saying that math and science are more important and other countries compete on this. This is true and the competition helps us get the will to discover, learn, improve, etc. But, as shown in the article, we're already doing great in the math and science department already and failing in Language Arts. It's time to start focusing on other subjects too. That doesn't mean stop the focus on math and science altogether, it just means evening up our skills in Language Arts.
Ummmm, Jake, I don't think most students are fine with language arts. I remember in my FCAT testing center, I said the words "suitable testing environment," and got blank looks from a little more than half the class. Meaning that at least 10 kids in the eighth grade did not know what the word "suitable" meant. I personally find that ridiculous. Also, once you get to the point in which the word "like" is the most commonly-used word in a person's lexicon, you know you have some serious teaching to do.
ReplyDeletea sales clerk focus's around the area of math...thats what i meant!
ReplyDeleteThe article makes a lot of sense and so does Fransisco. Basically, Obama wants more people to learn math and science so that new discoveries can be made. Also, since these subjects are so important when talking about our nations jobs and top-paying professions, they need to be pushed harder in schools. The science fair scenario completely represents this. Not that many people want to participate in science fair and science related topics; however, our country needs scientists. This is probably just another reason why Obama mentioned math and science in his speech.
ReplyDeleteAlthough i personally think that advances in math and science are more important then language arts, Obama should not have forgotten to mention it as well. Sure inventions, technology, and medicine are all involved with math and science, but without reading writing, and languages how would we be able to transfer our findings and works to other countries or other scientists for improvement. Language Arts is very important for both math and science too work and for the information of that work to be sent.
ReplyDeleteRicardo Hesse, First Period
I think that Obama's speech could have included other subjects such as writing or reading. It is a shame that the United States has such low percentages in subjects being that the average proficiency is only in the twenty and thirty percents. Writing can be used in many aspects of life but many students lack the language abilities and creative thinking to be able to construct a well written essay. It may be that there is bad education, or simply that the children of this age are not motivated or encouraged to be high achievers in school. Some people have potential, but just take the easy way out and stay in regular classes where their full capabilities are not being used. At the same time though, Science and Math are used more in medical or engineering discoveries than reading or writing. This could be why Obama didn't address them in the speech.
ReplyDeleteKalie M.
Period 2
I'm going to bring Fran's idea back. Yes, Language Arts and Writing are important, but Foreign Language has to be one of the most important topics addressed in the article. Considering one of our country's nick-names is "The Melting Pot" I would imagine that knowing other languages besides English would help expand our industry immensely. Although it is a requirement for students to learn a foreign language in order to graduate, many students do not take this seriously. To avoid being a hypocrite, this is sometimes because the pupils are not particularly interested in those languages. By expanding the amount of languages a student can take a class in, children can find a language that appeals to their interests rather than just settling for Spanish or French. It is those students who pick foreign languages that they like, rather then feel they have to take, that score higher grades. Learning is much more fun when you actually have a desire for the information. Students who excel in their language classes can go on to be translators or traders in foreign countries, expanding our economy, one of the main topics in Obama's speech. Thus, expanding the way America teaches foreign language should have been added to the President's State of the Union Speech.
ReplyDeleteKatelynn A. Period 3